The Mother Wound, Part I- The Transcript

Anna: Good morning, Kristina. Good morning, Anna. We're together. 

Kristina: We are, and we're ready to buckle and I'm buckling myself in right now for this episode. 

Anna: Yeah, this is going to be a hard one for Kristina. In our duo. We usually have parallel learnings and parallel. I don't know how to explain it, but like when we did the primal wounds, we were both in it.

And we were working on the trauma triangles. We were both in it, but for the mother wound, you've dove into it. And I would just kind of been resting on the shoulders, watching you drown. And I'm just over here watching, 

Kristina: I'm actually convinced that you have been doing the work, but you've been doing the work on the great mother wound.

Right. Which we'll get into here. When I explain things about there's kind of two levels of the mother wound, and I've just still been dealing with the personal story, you know? Cause I, it has been a massive part of my identity for most of my life. These stories that I've told myself over and over again about these things and the experiences that I've had in the kind of personality that I formed as a result of this stuff.

And that's okay. You know, like it's okay. That like, I feel like you did a lot of the work in the primal. And I think that for me, I did work in the primal wounds for sure. But then like I needed this level of it, which was, it's more specific. It's it's like the second degree, whereas like the primal wounds or the primary degree, like the first step in the foundation, like the mother wound is kind of a conglomerate of numerous different wounds.

And I needed that specificity to be able to be like, oh shit, this is the way it is. So , we're talking about the mother wound today, but first we wanted to talk about this concept of manifestation sounds on tick-tock of all things, because I have somehow found myself in the manifestation Tik TOK corner, which is.

 Not very intellectually stimulating. I'm not going to lie. Like I'm really happy for the people who have put sounds in their drafts and they find money or they like get a job or whatever. And they're always just like, oh my God, you'll never believe it. Can we 

Anna: define first what this is? Because some people are not on Tik 

Kristina: TOK.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so basically on Tik TOK, every video has a sound and a sound is one of the ways that the algorithm finds viral videos. Right? So basically there's like, one of the theories that an eight second video with only text in it in a sound is like automatically going to go viral because Tik TOK loves it.

Right. So there's algorithms that make it so that certain videos show up on your, for you page, which is. Videos that are generated by tick-tock, particularly for you. And the more you look at a certain type of video, the more you end up in a certain corner of Tik TOK. So you may end up in Wichita, or you may end up in survival talker.

You may end up in spirituality talk, or you may end up in codependency recovery, talk, diet talk. Yeah. Codependency, right. Like whatever it is. Right. And and so,, when it comes to this I somehow came back from England and the only videos I like don't even watch tic-tac anymore, because basically I've just ended up in this manifestation corner, which is not very intellectually stimulating.

I really loved ADHD, Tik TOK. That was like my favorite part of tick-tock. And then of course, all the videos that Anna does it for this spiritual fix. So there is this sound, there are a number of different sounds. There's some that have been mantras that have been created by people.

And it's like, you know, people snapping and kind of doing and rhythm, and it's almost like a spell, right? And so you can find a couple of those in which, you know, people find that they're able to there's one about my tree, the money tree, and that things come to me or that I, everything I need comes to me and I'm no longer chasing, 

Anna: although I did listen to the money tree one on repeat, cause I was like why not?

Because I was like if it's working for other people, it's probably just a collective unconscious sound at this point, let me jump into it. So I listened to the money tree one and within a week I got a phone call from a hospital that they want to do a partnership with my clinic and it might end up being very financially lucrative.

So I dunno it wasn't the money tree sock. I 

Kristina: don't know. But that's, I mean, that's the thing that's, what's so interesting. So the one who we're talking about today is time and oblivion, which have as of November 17, had like 800,000 people had made videos about it. And the sound itself had been viewed 11.1 billion times.

Anna: So if there's 11 billion listens, it means like half the world is and do it twice. I've 

Kristina: literally had to listen to it probably a hundred times because it's given it to me that many times on my algorithm.

So. It's basically the idea is that if you play the sound, like if you go to create a video with the sound on it and you put it in your drafts, then crazy things are going to happen for you. And there was this really interesting video that called this sound an aggregor and I've never used that terminology before.

I've never understood it, but apparently it is an academic. It's an academic terminology that indicates something that is a thought form in the collective consciousness. That's our language is the collective consciousness, but it's a thought form that basically derives the life of its own. Right?

Right. 

Anna: It's like, if you believe, if everyone believes, if enough people believe in something, it becomes true. Exactly. 

Kristina: Exactly. So the idea is that this sound has become that people believe that this sound is magic. And therefore it is because the guy who or guide the person, whoever created it, doesn't have any social media.

It just like magically appeared on Tik TOK, right. From the different stories that I've heard, those could all be apocryphal, but yeah. So I just thought that was an interesting concept to like know that there was, that people are thinking that this is that. And you know, if you go back to the last season, the coming home episode, I talk about things called like the neighborhood of worlds is one of the places that you can go and in the kind of authentic world and your quote unquote imagination, even though it's not, it's like a shared imaginary space and the neighborhood of worlds is all about, like, you can go to Harry Potter land, you know, you can go to the world of Harry Potter because enough people believe in it that it's a real thing or want to believe in it, or think of it in their thoughts that it's actually capable of manifesting.

Even if it doesn't manifest on this physical plane, it does manifest somewhere. So that does happen a lot. And it really is, you know? 

Anna: I think a great example of it is in the Roman Catholic church the statutes that. Have you heard of those? Yeah. Yeah. So you'll have like mother Mary statues, weeping tears or weeping blood.

And I think that's an aggregator. Yeah. Enough people are believing in it and it becomes real. Yeah. 

Kristina: And that's stigmata is this movie that has Patricia Arquette in it. And I love it's a horror movie, but I literally watched it to be inspired because it's all about the book of Thomas and the it's a fictional.

It's a fictional horror movie about the discovery of the book of Thomas, which basically is if any of you guys have read the gospel, according to Thomas, it is all about how God is in like crack you know, split a piece of wood. And I am there and it was not included in the Bible as one of the main gospels, but it is considered a, one of the Gnostic texts.

And stigmata is literally a movie about a woman getting a rosary and getting possessed by a priest who got the stigmata. And the idea that the Catholic church in this movie, they basically said that the stigmata was that it was a belief so strong in your faith. People believed and had so much faith that they actually took on the wounds of Christ.

Anna: I just thought of the most common aggregor in all of history. Why Santa Claus? 

Kristina: That's so true. I kids just saw Santa Claus yesterday, apparently. So that's 

Anna: that's awesome. Easter bunny, the spirit of Christmas, the grim Reaper, the devil, you could even argue the crucifixion of Christ is an aggregator and every, everyone wearing the necklace with the crucifix on it are feeding into the aggregor of suffering.

Yeah. And that wasn't necessarily Jesus 

is 

Kristina: teaching faith or sacrifice, right? Like sacrifice for you. Like I think that, like, I did a a food kitchen. I think we gave out like 1400 meals at a food kitchen. I did it this week because ever since getting COVID I've just like, 

Anna: you want to spread it to as many people as possible.

Kristina: No. I want to spread my love and supportive people and make it so that people feel, I don't know, I've just like, something's shifted in me significantly. And my altruistic bone has finally come out. I think as I've come out of the mother wound, right. Which we're going to talk about today, but that kind of survival mode.

So Santa 

Anna: clauses, it's real because so many of you will believe it. Sorry. I just really realizing that. So of my children asked me of Santa is real, so far. I've said some people believe in some doubt now I'm just going to tell them it's an aggregator. 

Kristina: Yeah. And I mean, and that's the thing is that anyone can take on the aggregor of Santa Claus.

That's the fascinating thing about it, right? Is that like, as you evolve and grow up and I kind of want to be careful just as we're talking about this, everybody, if you have years listening, will, hopefully 

Anna: children are. Listening to this episode on the mother woman, 

Kristina: right? We don't want to have to do that, but that, you know, I've heard people basically evolve Santa Claus from this aggregor or this, whatever that comes down the chimney and does this to actually, it's the spirit of Santa Claus that is possessed in everybody, this desire to give and to give without, I mean, technically you have to be good, which is, you know, kind of its own control mechanism with parenting.

But you know, like this idea of this altruistic giving that, that like, oh, it's the spirit of Christmas. And at Christmas you forgive people at Christmas, you give people stuff like, you know, you give people stuff and you don't expect anything in return and people can give more to charity. And there's just like this outpouring of altruistic love and spirit.

And that is actually the aggregor of SA Santa Claus coming out right. Is to be like, it's not about the guy coming down the chimney it's about. It's about that spirit of this is the time of year in which I am allowed to be altruistic just because yeah. Yeah. 

Anna: Alright. You ready for this? A shit storm of a 

Kristina: I am. I am. Can I just keep talking about Santa Claus, please? 

Anna: Kristina. Kristina did not want to record this episode this morning, but 

Kristina: yeah, but I just decided we did a meditation regression, trance, Silva, mind control thing. And I was just like, Nope, I gotta fucking, I gotta do it. I got to do it.

So, so the mother wound. All right. So the first thing I want to talk about the mother wound is that there are two levels of the mother wound is what I have discovered. And you can think of it as like the high school or why don't we think it is like the college level. Shadow work and then post-grad shadow work, right?

So the first level, the college level is the, what I call the, my mother wound. Right? It is the personal story. It is the experience of how you experienced your mother in this current life. And this has a lot to do with attachment, which is what we're going to get into in this episode. And I'm basing a lot of this on the book by Kelly McDaniel called mother hunger.

The subtitle of which is how adult daughters can understand and heal from loss, nurturance, protection and guidance, but it also comes from a lot of my own work that I've done with channeling and figuring out what the mother wound means to me. Based on the work that we've done on the primal wounds, based on the work that we've done on the drama triangle, et cetera.

So very much the, my mother wound is the personal story of healing from what you may or may not have received from your mother in this lifetime. The post-grad. Is the great mother wound which we're going to be covering in the next episode, in this series on the mother wound. And the great mother wound is just to give you a slight preview.

The mother in Hinduism and in tantra is the everything that is outside of you. It's not just mother nature. It's everything. It's literally, it's all the emotions that come out of your body. Like it's the energy that exists outside of you. So it's the chair, it's the blanket. It's the microphone, it's the tea.

It's the person. It's the other person. It's the whatever. It's basically everything. It's your body. It's everything that exists outside of your mind is the product of the mother. And we're going to talk in that episode about how the great mother wound is effectively. This idea. The mother is indiscriminate.

She doesn't discriminate between evil and good. She doesn't judge anything. It's all just energy to her. And that can form a lot of fear and it can form a lot of anger and it can form a lot of different things because we want to be taken care of by the great deity of external of our bodies, of our things like that.

So it's like some people attribute the death of people to like, why did God take this away from me? And my theory and from the research I've done and my experience channeling it is that anger isn't actually directed at the father. God, it's actually directed at the mother. God, why did you take this away from me?

Great mother. Right? And so that's kind of a prelude to what is the post-grad level of this wound. But today we're going to talk about the personal level, the. Really deep turmoil that a lot of people experience when they form insecure attachment with their mothers. And so the stats on that, and I believe this is just for the United States, but I've heard it for a bigger group and I can't cite the study, but the stats are that only 50% of the people in the United States are securely attached to their mothers or have secure attachment.

And then the rest form, a whole slew of other forms of attachment. So, the mother wound directly relates to this idea of having a form of loss protection, nurturance, or guidance at some point in your life, which has formed a form of insecure attachment. Which Anna would you like to talk about the different forms of 

Anna: attachment.

 What were you just saying real quick about, you said it was 

Kristina: protection, nurturance, and 

Anna: guidance. Okay. So if the mother figure is not providing 

Kristina: one of those things at one point in your life, whether it's obviously a lot of the stuff happens very young, but guidance, for instance, doesn't necessarily happen young.

So this is, this can be, this is a continuation that happens from birth to adolescents in which you have a figure a parental figure though, in this book, mother hunger. She actually talks about how biological mothers are actually. There's a lot of evidence that says that it is actually biological mothers, even in people who are adopted.

And if you go on adoption, Tik TOK, you can actually hear a lot of that, but that it is that mother hunger or forms of attachment insecurity. Are actually directly related to biological mothers and their impact on you. And that there is a hard wiring in our system. And this may be controversial for some people hearing this, because I know that there are all different forms of family.

And there's obviously surrogacy and there's all these different things. This research doesn't cover any of that. So I'm going to have to say that, you know, that the research that exists, that she brings up in this book is about biological mother and your attachment to biological your biological mother.

Okay. 

Anna: Okay. So there's four different types of attachment. You have your secure and then the three types of insecure. So first of all, if you have a secure attachment, it doesn't mean that you're not without relationship problems. Conflict that's going to arise, but they're different than other relationships in that when you have a secure attachment, you usually feel secure enough to take responsibility for your own problems.

You don't try to throw it all on the partner. You try to seek support and help when you fuck up and you own your issues. You appreciate your own. Self-worth, you're willing to be intimate. You don't try to escape from intimacy. You don't try to play all these mind games to avoid intimacy.

You find satisfaction in yourself and others. You're happy and supportive of your partner and you can maintain emotional balance. So then let's go into insecure attachments for those there's three, there is ambivalent or anxious attachment there's avoidant or dismissive attachment, and then there's disorganized attachment.

 Okay. So people with an anxious attachment tend to be quote, overly needy, and they often lack self-esteem, they're very uncertained and they're very anxious and crave emotional intimacy. Now, if you're going through those blends of the primal wounds, you could say that anxious attachment is probably the abandonment wound. Because the anxious attachment is all about I'm so scared. You're going to leave me. Please don't leave me. I seek intimacy, but I'm terrified of it.

Therefore, I'm going to purposely choose people who are unavailable, but I get to play the game that I am available and excited about love, because I'm looking like I'm pursuing it but secretly or covertly, I am avoiding it. They're actually avoidance in disguise as anxious, because they're actually purposely creating a situation where they're not going to get intimacy, but they get to play the game of I want intimacy.

It's just that, you know, she's a workaholic or I want intimacy, but he's in prison or he's long distance, or he's married, you know? So. They create these structures in which they're going to create anxiety and they get to avoid intimacy. Under the guise of, you know, wanting it.

Yeah so some characteristics of that is you want to be in a relationship and crave, closeness and intimacy, but you don't feel that you can actually trust or rely on your partner or your partner is unavailable in some way, whether it be addiction, workaholism, or distance, or the quintessential one is prison and or they're married, you know, like a woman or a man, but it's typically, I hate to say this.

I've noticed it more in women, you know, if they typically are dating or going after men who are really. Probably that's anxious, attachment being immature, letting your life be taken over by the person. So a relationship OCD, that's very anxious, attachment difficulty observing boundaries, seeing space as a threat, a sense of self losing a sense of self-worth.

If you're not in a relationship feeling overly anxious and jealous, things like that. People with this attachment style, often need constant reassurance and lots of attention from their partner.

And a lot of people will tell them you're a little too much, a little too clingy. You're too needy. Like even friends might say, Hey, yo, you need to stop texting me so much. That's another one. Then you have the avoidant or dismissive attachment style. And this I would say is usually. Coming from the primal wound of rejection or betrayal, because with betrayal, there's an intense need to control.

And so avoidance are trying to control the situation by creating space and creating excess of boundaries. And you could also say it's the rejection wound because the rejection wound intern is the escape artist and pulls away. And one thing to notice is that just like the anxious attachment is an avoidant in disguise.

The avoidant is an anxious in disguise. The avoidant attachment actually is extremely anxiously wanting intimacy, but it overwhelms them and they fear it. So they pull away. So they're kind of like opposite sides of the same coin. They're like a tango. And usually they find each other. So. Some examples of an avoidant attachment.

You're overly independent. You care for yourself, you feel you don't need others. For example, if you know anybody where it like it's two people living in the same house and they're like strangers, like you've seen couples that they don't actually talk to each other, unless it's about logistics or childcare rent.

And they pretty much are living independent lives. that's an example of two avoidance living together. The more a person tries to get close to an avoidant, the needier, they become . So another example is that an avoidant is kind of turned off by an EDI partner.

The more someone is seeking intimacy with them, the more they will withdraw, then you're uncomfortable with expressions of emotions. You might in a fight. If you have an avoidant personality called the other person hysterical or over emotional and Gaslight them, because emotions are threatening to you, you're prone to minimize and disregard your partner's feelings.

And you could even engage in affairs or in relationships often in order to regain your sense of freedom. So then we have the last one is disorganized, AKA the fearful one, and this is often a result of childhood trauma, neglect or abuse, and they find intimate relationships confusing, unsettling, and they often like swing between extremes of love and hate for the partner.

Again, I, that sounds a little bit like relationship OCD. They may be insensitive towards the partner, selfish, controlling, and even abusive. They may exhibit antisocial or negative behavior patterns like abusing alcohol drugs are prone to aggression or violence. We often find despair and annoyance in your refusal to take responsibility for your actions.

And even though you crave security and safety and intimacy, you don't believe that you deserve it and you're terrified of getting hurt again, your childhood may have been shaped by a lot of abuse, neglect or trauma. Yeah. 

Kristina: Yeah. So the breakdown of that is that it's, and again, this is what I think is from the United States is that 20% of the country has anxious attachment.

25 has avoidant and five has fearful or disorganized. So if you're listening to this and this resonates with you and you haven't heard anything about the attachment styles before then. Then maybe you have one of these things. . 

Anna: So, one thing I want to talk about real quick about the attachment styles is love bombing. So we've all heard about love bombing, which is like when someone comes on really strong and they are overwhelmed with promises and intensity.

Oh, you're the perfect this for me. You're the perfect that for me. And there's a lot of like too much, too soon. Love bombing. One thing to keep in mind is that people. An anxious attachment, AKA abandonment wounds. They don't necessarily love bomb in the beginning. They warm up to it. But if they are loved bomb, it's like a switch is turned on and they're able to turn on their love bombing, but they love bomb for the entire relationship.

So the entire relationship for them is all about the other person. And they love bomb continuously with that person. Whereas an avoidant will usually just love bomb in the beginning or love bomb during arguments. So in the beginning, they'll come on strong and then pull back. And then the partner is like, where did they go?

Like, what's wrong? What did I do wrong? And it's becomes this push pull dynamic where they try harder to earn that affection that they were getting in the beginning back. The avoidant is not, you know, some people will be like, oh, he's an asshole. He's loved bombing me. It's not conscious. They want that love and intimacy.

And then when they realize it can actually happen, they get scared and pull away. I just want to throw 

Kristina: that out there. Oh no, that's great. That's great. One of the things that I love that Kelly McDaniel says in her book is the attachment styles were created basically in a laboratory.

They were basically created to try and describe behavior. And so that's why they're called the attachment styles. But one of the things that she likes to clarify in this is that these are actual wounds, their attachment wounds. If you want to call it, or as I call it, they're the mother wound, which means that they can be healed.

I can honestly tell you that I have gone through the gambit of insecure attachment, and I find myself more insecure attachment at this point in my life. But I can definitely tell you that I've been in relationships where I was displaying anxious attachment. I can definitely tell you that I've been in relationships where I was displaying avoidant attachment.

 I would say that I probably started. In anxious went to fearful, went to avoidant, and now I find myself in secure attachment. It helps that my partner helps meet me in that place as well. Because like we say, the tuning fork is that if you have the potential or if you have some sort of unhealed attachment wound, mother wound then you are likely going to resonate.

If somebody else's displaying a similar thing, or like you said, it may be the, an antagonist like that person's avoidance. So you're playing anxious or something along those lines. So that's kind of the overview of what we're talking about here with the mother wound. And one of the things that, that Kelly McDaniels talks about in her book a lot is these three things, which is protection, nurturance, and guidance.

And so I kind of want to briefly talk about them and what they mean. Okay. So when you are born, you are. Looking for, you know, you develop a whole slew of biochemical experiences happen when you were born to both the biological mother and the child, and they are almost all designed to create attachment to each other, right?

So that you are facing early forming a bond between a mother and a child, such that the experience of that mother will be enticed to protect and nurture you in ways of feeding and security and physical touch and all of the different things that you need in order to throw. Physical touch is one of those things that, however many years ago was like a dozen years ago or something like that.

You know, talking about how children who were not thriving were being kept in incubators and not touched, which is why, if you go volunteer in a NICU, you're going to be I don't know what it's like with COVID, but I know prior to that, I know people who volunteered in a NICU and they were constantly touching the children because the children needed the physical touch in order to regain their thrive, right.

In order to survive. And if they weren't being touched, then that wasn't happening. So there are certain biological requirements that we have as infants in order to be able to. To survive, right. To survive through whatever. And I'm talking about emotionally, mentally, and physically develop all of the different stages and go through all the different milestones in the way that you need to.

So, protection is an obvious one because you're protecting people from any kind of harm from cold, from hunger, from starvation, from dangerous situations or dangerous people. Those are all the things that the character. Is tasked with doing for an infant because an infant cannot do it for itself.

Nurturance again, physical touch love affection, responding to someone into an infant's needs when it needs it. But this goes beyond a lot of these things, particularly protection nurturance happen in those early formative years in the first two years of life. But it also continues past that because a two year old still technically can't take care of themselves, right?

So, the kind of ebb and flow of when you need protection and when you need nurturance and when you need guidance changes in those formative years from zero to adolescents. And, you know, as you start going into, approaching adolescents and going into puberty guidance becomes a much more important thing.

Right? How do you do the things that you need to do? How do you deal with as a woman had. Going through puberty. How do you deal with the experience of getting a period for the first time? How do you deal with, you know, not only the biological needs, but also the cultural norms. How do I perform in culture in a way that is socially acceptable?

Because the prerogative of the biology of a woman and I need to specify that I am talking very much in a binary system and I apologize for that because I don't have the research currently. And I know that the currently the research is going on for kind of the non for non-binary and transgender people.

But I am obviously talking about cis-gender women in this particular case, going through adolescents is that, the need to find the way to socially conform so that you are created, that you are finding the tribe of people, of women who are going to continue to guide you, is all, are all necessarily parts of your developmental model.

So that's kind of the overview of kind of protection, nurturance and guidance. I would really recommend that you read this book by Kelly McDaniel. When we get to the end of this.

And we talk more about healing. This wound, you will hear kind of how you are able to heal this wound by going back and providing yourself through regression Repairenting by providing yourself protection, nurturance, and guidance in order to help heal your if you have an insecure attachment or if you have if you have this wound and you're finding that it is very hard to attach to people.

Anna: So you closed the circuit by becoming your own nurture yeah. Guide and yeah. 

Kristina: Protector, spoiler alert. The thing is that these wounds are inherited for the most part, right? Mothers who are not. Secure attachment cannot teach secure attachment easily unless they do this work to heal and create then close that circuit.

Right? So there are generations, like I can tell you in my family, I have literally on my mate, on my mother matriarchal side matrilineal side, I have generations of broken mother-daughter relationships. Right. And I recognize that my job in this life is to heal that for myself and my own daughter, because that's what I have control over.

And for myself as my mother to basically rewrite the past, 

Anna: you know, it's interesting as I've done family constellation, which I don't know if you've anyone listening is familiar with, but family constellation is all about looking at the dynamics of the family and how they go back and this and that and this and that.

And it, if you start to write it all down on paper, It is fascinating to see how dynamics will repeat themselves over time. For example, my mother died when I was 11. And then if you look at my mother's life, I don't know the details of her childhood, but when I look at her mother's life, her mother and father divorced when she was about 11 and she was sent to live with her father and her sister went live with the mother.

So she had around the same age, had a break. And I'm my guess is if you went back another generation right around age 11, that mother also had some sort of break and there's patterns. And like you experienced it with COVID, your mom died when you were six, and then you got extremely ill with your six year old.

You know what I'm 

Kristina: saying? And literally was three weeks older than I was when my mom died. Yeah. She left her father, my, my grandmother and my mother stole away from my mom's father from my grandfather is sick. 

Anna: Yeah. And I bet you, if you go back even further, you see that these patterns repeat themselves.

And sometimes it's, to lesser or greater intensities, but the patterns repeat. And I find that so fascinating. So I'm going to be very try to do as much work as possible so that when my daughter turns 11, we don't have any schisms.

Yeah, 

Kristina: I'm going to go into a little bit of this. This is the part that I didn't want to say because, you know, I have a story that I've been telling my entire life.

It is evolved with my understanding of the world. But I like to think of it as a quilt. Each block of the quilt is a different memory that I've formed. That is completely convoluted by my memory, which is not that great. And by a need to create a very sturdy quilt. And the way that I'll explain that is like,

if you have maladaptive attachment strategies, which is what is the official term for basically, if you have maladaptive behaviors as a result of an attachment strategy or a result of a mother. Which I do. And this is one of the things that I'm shedding right now, you have a pattern of behavior that could be people pleasing.

It could be getting excessively angry when things don't go your way or when you're in survival mode or when you're not getting helped. And it's like every single one of your abandonment wounds is triggered. And it's like, you're, self-sabotaging all over the place. These are maladaptive behaviors that we develop in order to survive.

When we haven't been given what we need. I think of my maladaptive behaviors as a quilt and the memories that I have of my abuse or my neglect or my relationships that were shit. I think of them as the thread that keeps all of these maladaptive behaviors together. And when it comes to. I don't want to have the quilt anymore.

I don't want that to be my identity. I want to take it off. I want to feel like it's okay to be cold and to walk around without the quilt and that it's okay for me to be vulnerable. And it's okay for me to not have all of these trauma memories and all of these maladaptive behaviors protecting me from the world because I don't trust it because I don't trust it to take care of me.

I'm ready to grow up. This is the next step. After the drama triangle for me, the next step in the drama triangle is for me to be vulnerable, to whatever, and to not have to protect myself and not put on this fake personality, which is this quilt in order to protect myself from the world because nobody protected me. So the story I'm telling is one that I am ready to release because it doesn't really matter. It's the past it's an aggregator in some ways. It's my aggregator or, yeah, it really is because it's something that it's kept together. And I've talked about this in the dark passenger episode from last season about Hermes and.

Fake persona that I put on, but Hermes was just a part of that, right? It was just a part of these, this quilt, this tapestry of maladaptive behaviors and and memories and Hermes was what got me through. It was what made it so that I was charming or whatever, but Hermes was associate path because he needed to be, he was very transactional and he is. But the basic story is that, you know, I was born into a family where I was created to try and save a marriage, and that doesn't ever work for anybody thinking of doing that. Having a kid does not save your marriage most of the time, if ever, because it's just a stressor, right?

When I was just turned two, she was diagnosed with breast cancer and she had the reaction that you would imagine, which is, oh my God, I'm dying.

I'm going to change my life and make myself happy. And so she divorced my dad or separated from my dad, like six months later. And and then was a series of not custody battles, but kind of custody manipulation in which she wanted to be with us. But she was never with us because she was. She was trying to make herself happy.

She was trying to get through her shit. You know, she was trying to get through her trauma. And, you know, there are a lot of her friends on Facebook ever since I've started this podcast and kind of been more open. Why on Facebook of all places? I don't know, but I am that have reached out and being like, I want to tell you about your mom, my mother's best friend has told me some of the story about things, but there's so much that I don't know, but my story is that she didn't want us to be with her dad.

She wanted us to be with her, but she was never with us because she worked at night. She was an actress. She used to leave us at a daycare that, and leave us there all night sometimes. You know, w didn't feed us the way that we needed to you know, kind of force my sister into a mother role of taking care of me because I was so young, I couldn't possibly take care of myself and And in a kind of a series of those sorts of things.

And then she died when I was six and then things got even more interesting because, you know, go back to season one, episode seven, and I'm a grief stricken child. Who's lost their parent, even if their parent was whatever. But I was my mother's favorite something that got held against me for the rest of my childhood, but I was my mother's favorite to the, you know, the neglect of my sister even more so than I was.

And I lost the PA the parent who was my advocate. And I had to adapt because everyone knew that I was the favorite. And therefore I became the not favorite if so to speak in the in the post mother days. And so I had a very tumultuous relationship with the person that my father was dating. Kind of, you know, I have somewhat mended things.

I've mended things with this person at this point. So, you know, I'm hesitant in some ways to talk about this significantly, but you know, the story and I'm going to say, this is the story. This isn't reality was that I was always caught out for being outspoken, precocious, whatever I would get, we would get in these raging fights and terrible things would get said, and I would just feel completely destroyed.

And then the person would go away and then they would come back and they would be fine and I would have to apologize and I never got to speak. So I got into the stress cycle where I had a stress. And then I never got a chance to actually D like offload the stress, right? Like it never came and this person was supposed to be supposedly a quote unquote mother figure.

And that didn't happen. None of the nurturance or protection, or it was the opposite. It was the opposite of protection. It was the opposite of nurturance. And it was the opposite of guidance. I mean, I think maybe guidance was probably the only thing that does, I think the guidance was there, but it wasn't guidance on how to be a person or a human or a woman.

And so, you know, and so I had a nanny at that period because, you know, my dad was a single dad even, you know, and she was the closest thing I had to a mother in those days after my mother died. And she was amazing. Like, she taught me a lot of things. She taught me not to plagiarize homework. I didn't understand.

I didn't have, I didn't have, you know, she cared if I did or didn't do my homework. She fed us, she had a baby and to kind of taught me the whole basics of like how to take care of a baby and things like that. And she was with us for five years, and then she left because she was getting too close to us.

So she just left out of the blue. The person who came into to be that nurturance and to be that protection and guidance decided that her own shit came in the way her own attachment style got in the way. And we were getting too close and so effectively she abandoned us.

That's my story. That's how it felt. And then came the manufactured. Kristina, after that, I hit puberty. I still got in fights. I still got in raging psychotic fights that were really harmful. And I had a lot of really harmful shit happened. And I had a lot of really harmful shit say, and like, and the reason I'm telling you this story is not so that you feel sorry for me.

It's so that maybe part of it resonates with you and I'm telling you that this is my story and that this is something that I am releasing. Because the harm that it continues to do to me and the lack of movement that I have, because I've hold held onto this aggregor of my childhood for the longest time is something that I'm ready to get rid of.

I developed a manufacturer personality, and we're going to talk about this in some other episodes, but I've developed a manufacturer personality that is full of people, pleasing, rescuing drama, triangle, bullshit. People can see through it. I've lost massive relationships that were really important to me because people saw through it and you know, and it loses its shit really fucking easily.

And this COVID situation is exactly where that happens. So to kind of give you some background of like, you know, how I've gone through this mother wound is that two months ago I was like, look, we're going to start the mother wound. I'm ready to do this work. And the fucking mother answered. And she gave me exactly what I fucking needed to be able to get access.

And there are weeks in there when I was like reading the mother hunger book. And I was like, okay, I understand this on an intellectual level, but the mother and the mother wound will not let you do this intellectually because it doesn't give you the access. Intellectual is like fucking skimming off the surface.

It's like a rock skimming off the surface of this and this work to have to dismantle. I'm not even dismantling it. Just not even paying attention to it, not giving the aggregator, the energy of it anymore is really the work that's here. And so what happened was that I had a whole bunch of intellectual understanding of the mother wound.

And then I went to UK. I got fucking COVID with my six year old daughter who was three weeks older than I was when my mother died. And I was stuck in a situation where I had. I want it to be rescued. I wanted somebody to take care of me. I wanted to be protected. I wanted somebody to just be there and be like, it's okay.

I'm going to take care of everything. You don't have to worry about anything. Like you're okay. And you can relax and you can be the kid and get taken care of and protected and nurtured in a way that you never were before. But none of that happened. None of it happened. Nobody came. I mean, I got like, literally the most amazing thing was a colleague from work who I, you know, he's an amazing person, but he like got this bag together full of all this stuff.

And, you know, like dropped it off at my door and it was just so above and beyond because I just needed stuff from her pharmacy. And he gave me puzzles and stuff and like, it is my worst nightmare to be in a situation where I can't take care of my kid because I'm so. I literally read the fucking little house on the Prairie and the little house on the Prairie weeks before this has a scene where they all get malaria.

And the only reason that they survived, because all of them are so sick, none of them can take care of each other. And the only reason they survive is because a woman happens to go by and see that like something's off. And she just happens to she's like another one of the pioneers. And she happens to see that.

And so she feeds, she takes care of them and she gives them like water because they're all, they literally can't even get water to themselves. They're so sick. And they were literally all going to die, but it was just chance that she happened to be in it. And I literally weeks before this COVID thing happened, I was like, that's my worst nightmare.

I don't want that to happen. And the motherfucking answered by giving me a situation where I was sick with no physical support. And the thing is that Anna was absolutely fucking incredible. During this time period, she helped. I was so deep in the drama triangle. I was so deep in that person that I was so deeply wrapped in my quilt that I was pushing everybody away who wanted, like I was pushing people away.

I was feeling betrayed and abandoned continually because my husband was like, I'm going to show up. And I was like, oh my God, you're going to show up. Which is like the fucking worst idea ever, because both of us have COVID and he's like, I'm going to show up with our son who's un-vaccinated because he's five or four, I'm going to show up and take care of you.

And I was like, oh my God, I that's it. I need to be rescued right now because I am the victim of this situation. Then you put your son at risk and then you put your son at risk, which is the dumbest thing I knew it was the dumbest thing ever. But then I felt completely betrayed when he decided, I literally thought he was on the way to the airport and he told me he's not coming.

And I felt so bad. I felt like he had strung me along because it had been the only thing, like in those first days of COVID it had been the only thing that made me feel and eat bit of hope and made me feel like I could get out of the anxiety and the panic attacks and all the things that were basically all of the maladaptive behaviors that I had ever experienced for the mother wound were coming up in me so deeply.

And so you hear that bonus episode of ours. I am literally wrapped in that fucking blanket. During that bonus episode, I may have had some moments of light in it, but you can hear it and you can hear it even in the Krishna DAS episode of like me coping and using this coping blanket and using this personality and using all the different things, because it was like, that's what the mother gave me.

When I asked for the mother wound was to go , careening into this fucking personality that I had created. And it just starts falling around at my feet. So, you know, the end of the story. Is that it's not over, I'm still doing the work, I'm still experiencing it. And I'm also experiencing the great mother wound at the same time, but I'm healing the shit that I need to heal at the, my mother wound level.

I'm healing the fact that like, I'm going back and now that I have so much access to this, I'm going back and I'm experiencing the end of those stress cycles. The end of the cycles in which the stressor has been taken away. But I am still 100%, not 100%. I'm probably like 40% in stress mode.

I can't handle change. Like I go into panic if I wake up and I'm in a kind of a wrong place or something hurts. And I think whatever, like I'm still in that space, but the stress is dissipating from the COVID experience. And with it. Comes to clarity of recognizing that I am ready to take off the quilt and be vulnerable.

And also the work of doing the healing of the mind mother wound. So one of the things that I did when I would sit there and I would be in the midst of a terrible panic attack, just wanting to die, but also being terrified to leave my daughter with nobody to take care of her. When I was sitting at, especially in the haunted apartment that I was in, which was like the third one I was in as I would sit there, and I would say, I'm protected.

 I would repeat it over and over again. And then I would go back and I would talk to the mother, right. Because I knew that like I needed to talk to my mother. I talked to my mother and those. She was there. And she was, I was coming to terms with what had happened between us and what she hadn't given me and all that attachment that she hadn't given me.

I had moments where it was the mother and it was shocked and it was like this divine love. And I would just be like, I'm here to feel the love. Like I love you. I would say, I love you over and over again. And I would start to feel it. I would start to feel the love that permeates everything. And I would say like, I accept this.

I'm not going to block it out anymore. Because that's what the mother wound teaches you. The mother wound teaches you that you can't have trust that you can't trust people to be there for you and do the things that they need to do. And yet that trust forms, this fucking damn between you and the unconditional love that exists everywhere.

So our, my mother wound, if we don't heal it, if we don't. If we can't go back and figure out how to give ourselves that, then it blocks us from the unconditional love that the great mother has to give us and that our mothers, even if they've passed, even if they're gone, even if they couldn't give us what they could, because they were in fucking survival mode or because they were never given it themselves, it's all just resistance to the love that exists everywhere.

So 

that's where I am with it. I am healing. I am, I'm not even healing. I am loving my quilt so that. I don't have to pay attention to it anymore. Even if I continue to wear it for the rest of my life, I can feel as if I can be myself and relax and trust the world.

And I'm going to be building up that trust as much as I can by trusting and loving the world. Because ultimately the mother wound, I believe is an inception of the embankment and the betrayal wound. It basically comes off of those two things. And both of those things, trust is the real crux of those things.

If you can develop trust in yourself or trust in the world, then you can start the work of healing it. So, Anna, can you tell us how we can repair it? Oh, are you parenting or do you want to say anything? I can also say to you, I just didn't like 

Anna: I we parenting work. Do you want to say something else besides Cory parenting?

No. No, it's just interesting. Cause I've made some tick talks. People are like how do you stop self abandoning? How do you stop self abusing? And I think it all comes down to re parenting in the sense that you got to put yourself in a alpha state, first of all, because it cannot happen on the conscious beta level that we live in and you need to go deep.

You need to go to alpha. You need to go to feta. There's three ways you can do that. You can do the Silva, mind control method, which we talk about in our entire episode on trance, you could put yourself into feta with a hypnosis track that you could find for free on YouTube, or maybe you hire a hypnotist or the third way would be.

 In a deep meditation, I guess there's a fourth way, which would be to hire a specific therapist for this like an RTT therapist. But basically you've got to get yourself in the unconscious subconscious part of your brain. Cause that's where all this is. And what we don't understand, what we don't see is running the show.

So you have to go below the surface and just get in touch with that pain and get in touch with that inner child and get in touch with that wound. And then repairing yourself means you look at and you go, okay, so you didn't get the nurturance, but I am going to nurture you now, or you didn't get that protection, but I will protect you now.

So you decide that you're going to close the circuit. You've got an open, if you imagine it's like a circle and it's open, you're like, I'm going to close it. You're not looking anymore outside of yourself for something to come along and close the circuit for you. You're going to close it inside yourself.

You're going to be your own self nurture. You're going to be your own self protector. You're going to be your own self guide. Are you make a dedicated. Commitment. It's almost like you marry yourself or you repair it yourself and you just decide I'm going to be the one who gives it to myself.

Yeah. And that's on the apparent level. And then on the deeper level, the universe is doing it for you. And that's where I've been. I've been, which we're going to talk about in the SQL to this. But that's where I have been in all this. I've not been tackling my mother trauma stories. I've been instead doing what rom dos and neem Karoli Baba who visited me have been guiding me to do, which is to live from my heart and to focus on what I want, which is not to spiritually bypass it.

But it's more like I'm consciously breaking apart. I'm consciously breaking up my aggregor by not giving it any more. And I want to read this great quote from a book called I am that by Nisargadatta Maharaj. He was an enlightened master in India and he says, pay no attention to the thoughts that bother you.

Don't fight them, just do nothing about them. Let them be whatever they are. You're very fighting them, gives them life, just disregard, look through."" And so what I think is important is we have to understand that we cannot control the, what happened to us and we cannot control. The events of our life and we cannot control the wounds that we carry, but we can control if we feed them or not.

And we feed them with our thoughts and we feed them with identification. So I've been very conscious, like in all of the first and second season, I've been like, oh, I'm an abandonment wound person. You know, , I've only been making that aggregator stronger when I do that and I don't want to do that anymore.

I want to be empty and I want to be free. And I don't want to define myself by my past anymore. It doesn't mean spiritual bypass that I'm just going to be like, oh, that never happened. And we're good. No, those things happened, but I'm looking elsewhere now. I'm just, reshifting my attention. And I'm a shifting it to my heart.

That means that I'm letting myself feel everything that comes up, you know, rom Doss keeps reminding me over and over again, to feel from my heart, feel for my heart. I'll see him. I've been visited by him. If you haven't been listening to other episodes, he was a very wise man and I see his ghost and he'll just come right up to me and he just starts beating, tapping my heart hard.

And 

Kristina: he's like, it is hard. That was hard. That was hard. He did that to 

Anna: Chris. It feels awesome. It feels awesome. We'll just come up with your thymus gland. Yeah. He just comes up to me and it just starts tapping me hard on my chest. And he's a stay here. Stay here, stay in your heart. And what that means is that I'm forced to feel everything that comes up.

Like it was ridiculous. I was taking a walk and I saw a leaf fall from a tree, and I was overwhelmed with the grief that leaf will never be attached to that tree anymore. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. And I look around and I see dead leaves all over the forest floor. And I'm like, all of these leaves have left their mother and I felt immense sadness and grief for them.

And I'm like that's what it means to live in the heart. Fuck. I'm going to fucking stay in this grief it came and it passed. And I'm trying to work and live in my heart and make my heart wide and deep and tall and feel everything that comes through it. And when it's almost unbearable, just observe it and say, how long will this pain last?

Because it can't last forever. But if I hold onto it, I feed my aggregor. But if I let it pass right through me, it just passes right through me. So that's where I've been with this. 

Kristina: It's so fascinating to me. Cause like listening to you say this is that like, think, like, just think about this, like in terms of design, like you want to think about like, if you were the mother and you wanted to design a lesson and you have two hosts of a podcast and one is like, I want to go into the fucking mother wound and go research this shit and I want to bring up my stuff.

You give them one lesson and then you have another of the podcast host. Who's just like, I'm going to open my heart to love, right. Who you are. You're like, I'm going to have my teachers come and talk to me about what I need to look at. And I'm just going I'm gonna open my heart as big as possible.

I'm going to feel the grief that I'm going to feel. And it's like in a lot of ways, there's a part of my quilt personality, my manufacturer personality. Right. That's like, feels very unhappy with the fact that I had to go through like that. I chose to go through this path, but then again, I'm also just like, actually, no, it's a really good destroyer of that ego, so to speak, but it's not destroying it.

I'm not trying to say that. It's like when something has its jaws in you so much, sometimes it needs a big whack on the head. If you want to see what I'm saying. Right. And like, and I think in a lot of ways, me even telling you guys this story and revealing this weakness is something that, that part of me feels very uncomfortable with because that part of me wants to pretend that everything is, I have everything under control, right.

That everything is fine. It's like perfect betrayal and abandonment wound. And basically like, everything is fine. Nothing is bad. I don't need anything. I'm totally okay. And this experience, this COVID experience basically serve to to say that, there is a part of me that is not okay. And my job is to love that part even more.

This isn't about destruction of that part. Like that's, I'm not going to destroy. But I might just put it away in the attic in a nice little, like folded up and put it in a little Cedar check. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Stop feeding it by stop looking at it every day or saying that it's done this or saying, oh my God, I have this behavior and I just did it.

And it really sucks. It's like, no, just look at the thing that you want. And I know it's necessary for me to tell this story and to reveal this weakness about myself, because it's a nice little whack on the head. I think 

Anna: a lot of people are going to identify with a mother who disappointed them on some level.

Kristina: Yeah. Yeah. You know, so you might not have the same level of intensity as I do with feeling alone and abandoned, being sick, not having what you need, any of those sorts of things. But if there is any part of you that resonates with any of the different attachment wounds, you know, I really recommend that you go back in a regression or something like that.

And also. Really look at your trust and sensitivity. I'm going to say trust in sensitivity. I've noticed that I've worked with a lot of people. I've done a lot of sessions with people.

And what I've noticed is that, like, if you have a problem with being too sensitive or not sensitive enough, like you go between those kinds of two extremes, like whether it's sexually, cause we're going to talk about attachment styles with sex later in the season, whether it's a sensitivity with sex, whether it's sensitivity with your emotions.

Like if you either have no emotions and you feel almost sociopathic part of the time, or if you're just like an empath and overly thing, there's a very good chance. That you may be dealing that you may have this experience of this mother wound or that you may have something that has to do with the attachment wounds.

So I would really encourage you if you do resonate with this to look at that, see if you have a sensitivity kind of, like, a sensitivity hyper hypo. Yes. Thank you. Hyper hypo sensitivity. See and ask yourself, do I trust not only other people, but do I trust myself, right? Or are you experiencing these maladaptive behaviors and you don't trust yourself in situations you don't trust yourself to go into different relationships and be able to do this, ask yourself those questions.

And if those are true, go back and recognize that protection, nurturance and guidance are the things that you needed as a child and provide them for yourself.